FreeDOS 1.2 -- Keymap

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FreeDOS 1.2 -- Keymap

Jerome Shidel
Hello All,

This is my plan.

I will try to find the time over the next couple days to implement the keyboard mapping in the installer.

If the user is in advanced mode OR selects a non-English language, the installer will prompt for a couple of keyboard settings. US, UK, GR, GR2, SG, NL, FR and SP.

It will not prompt when running in normal mode and English is selected. Hopefully, Jim will be fine with this addition.

Jerome




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Re: FreeDOS 1.2 -- Keymap

Matej Horvat
On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 16:59:05 +0200, Jerome Shidel <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> If the user is in advanced mode OR selects a non-English language, the
> installer will prompt for a couple of keyboard settings. US, UK, GR,
> GR2, SG, NL, FR and SP.

The FreeDOS 1.0 installer offered 85 keyboard layouts. Why stop there?

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Re: FreeDOS 1.2 -- Keymap

Jerome Shidel

> On Oct 16, 2016, at 11:33 AM, Matej Horvat <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 16:59:05 +0200, Jerome Shidel <[hidden email]>  
> wrote:
>
>> If the user is in advanced mode OR selects a non-English language, the
>> installer will prompt for a couple of keyboard settings. US, UK, GR,
>> GR2, SG, NL, FR and SP.
>
> The FreeDOS 1.0 installer offered 85 keyboard layouts. Why stop there?

Mostly, I see no point in offering a keyboard layout for languages that do
not have translations available for the installer at present. There have only
been 5 translations provided for the installer. So, for example, I don’t think
it is very likely that many people will choose English, German, Spanish,
French, Dutch or Esperanto and be trying to use a Norske keyboard.

Also, limiting the number of available choices will make it easier to
select the correct layout from the menu. Instead having multiple pages
of keyboard layout choices. Each of these screens will require translation
into the appropriate languages.

Finally, I will be using mkeyb to set the keyboard layouts. It only has
roughly 30 or so languages.

XKEYB is also installed and the user may change over to that for
more choices.

Jerome
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Re: FreeDOS 1.2 -- Keymap

Ralf Quint
On 10/16/2016 4:02 PM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr. wrote:
>
>> The FreeDOS 1.0 installer offered 85 keyboard layouts. Why stop there?
> Mostly, I see no point in offering a keyboard layout for languages that do
> not have translations available for the installer at present. There have only
> been 5 translations provided for the installer. So, for example, I don’t think
> it is very likely that many people will choose English, German, Spanish,
> French, Dutch or Esperanto and be trying to use a Norske keyboard.
The part of the issue that you seem to be missing is that a lot of those
people will have a computer with a localized keyboard. And it can be a
pain in the posterior even if you try to work in an English language
software with a localized keyboard. For example on a German keyboard,
"Z" and "Y" are reversed, and several punctuation keys are in different
locations, "(" and ")" are for example also shifted to the left, "-",
"/" are in totally different positions (though for those usually the
workaround of the numeric keyboard works). And other languages are even
worse.
Again, that not only makes working in localized software difficult but
even trying to use English software/commands...

Ralf

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Re: FreeDOS 1.2 -- Keymap

tom ehlert
In reply to this post by Jerome Shidel


>> On Oct 16, 2016, at 11:33 AM, Matej Horvat <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 16:59:05 +0200, Jerome Shidel <[hidden email]>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If the user is in advanced mode OR selects a non-English language, the
>>> installer will prompt for a couple of keyboard settings. US, UK, GR,
>>> GR2, SG, NL, FR and SP.
>>
>> The FreeDOS 1.0 installer offered 85 keyboard layouts. Why stop there?

> Mostly, I see no point in offering a keyboard layout for languages that do
> not have translations available for the installer at present. There have only
> been 5 translations provided for the installer. So, for example, I don’t think
> it is very likely that many people will choose English, German, Spanish,
> French, Dutch or Esperanto and be trying to use a Norske keyboard.

I think you don't understand the problem.

most of us nonUS users will be able to use DOS in our native language,
in english, and mostly in spanish, french, ... too.

DIR and friends doesnt't need much of translation.

however using any OS with the wrong keyboard driver is simply shit.

> and be trying to use a Norske keyboard.

it's not trying to use. ist OWNING one.

> Also, limiting the number of available choices will make it easier to
> select the correct layout from the menu. Instead having multiple pages
> of keyboard layout choices. Each of these screens will require translation
> into the appropriate languages.

I start thinking that you are the wrong person to define what FreeDOS 1.2 should look like.

> Finally, I will be using mkeyb to set the keyboard layouts. It only has
> roughly 30 or so languages.

even as author of MKEYB: there is no reason to ignore the other ~60
keyboards that are available in freedos 1.0.

software should become better over time.


> XKEYB is also installed and the user may change over to that for
> more choices.

MAKE IT A SETUP QUESTION. NOT ONLY FOR ADVANCED USERS.

TOM


Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Kind regards
Tom Ehlert
+49-241-79886


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Re: FreeDOS 1.2 -- Keymap

Eric Auer-3

Hi Tom, Jerome, everybody,

> however using any OS with the wrong keyboard driver is simply shit.

Trying to explain: Imagine your keyboard has AZERTY written on it. Then
DOS comes and simply assumes you have a "normal" QWERTY keyboard. Now
every time when you press the A button, DOS types Q for you. Big pain!

You basically have to pretend that your keyboard has all the QWERTY-
specific writings on all the keys to be able to type stuff when DOS
blindly assumes that your keyboard would actually be QWERTY style.

>> Finally, I will be using mkeyb to set the keyboard layouts. It only
>> has roughly 30 or so languages.
>
> even as author of MKEYB: there is no reason to ignore the other ~60
> keyboards that are available in freedos 1.0.

>> XKEYB is also installed and the user may change over to that for
>> more choices.
>
> MAKE IT A SETUP QUESTION. NOT ONLY FOR ADVANCED USERS.

The suggestion to use MKEYB is an attempt to compromise: MKEYB already
has the most popular layouts AND config for it could be squeezed into
a reasonably small amount of BAT code and only 1 question to the user.

The installer could even make reasonable assumptions and offer default
settings based on the language selected for the installation, but the
two topics (translations and keyboard layout) are mostly independent.

The choice of XKEYB is so big that a big advanced menu would have to
be implemented, which might be asking too much from Jerome's time...

Users with less popular layouts could therefore answer the question on
MKEYB layouts with "I have none of those" and the installer could then
say "Okay, read this text file with a list of XKEYB layouts and type a
layout name for XKEYB at this prompt..." Which would be less fun for
the user than some quick "pick one of those layouts, select 0-9 / A-Z"
in the initial MKEYB menu but also less work for Jerome to implement,
compared to a full menu with descriptions for tons of possible XKEYB
layouts. I admit that I am simplifying the XKEYB problem here. I omit
the "sub ID number" and "which definition file" part. Even having to
fill in some extra prompts can be less pain than having to use EDIT
to update AUTOEXEC manually later, while being in the "wrong" layout.

Regards, Eric



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