FreeDOS 1,2 runs very slow

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
9 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

FreeDOS 1,2 runs very slow

Ira Minor
I recently installed FreeDOS 1.2 in order to develop DOS apps using Turbo C 2.01. Small apps that compile almost instantly on DOS 7.1 take a very long time using FreeDOS. I REMed out LH FDAPM APMDOS in autoexec.bat and my compiles sped up and are now as fast as DOS 7.1. My guess is that the default in FreeDOS is to run slow so games will run correctly. I think the command to run full speed is FDAPM SPEED 8/8. Half speed is 4/8, the slowest is 1/8 one eighth speed.

Ira

[hidden email]  805-212-0588

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Freedos-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: FreeDOS 1,2 runs very slow

Louis Santillan
What is your EMS/XMS configuration?  Do you have a drive cache in
installed?  Do you have a RAM Disk Driver installed?

Providing the autoexec.bat and config.sys for both installs would be helpful.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Ira Minor <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I recently installed FreeDOS 1.2 in order to develop DOS apps using Turbo C
> 2.01. Small apps that compile almost instantly on DOS 7.1 take a very long
> time using FreeDOS. I REMed out LH FDAPM APMDOS in autoexec.bat and my
> compiles sped up and are now as fast as DOS 7.1. My guess is that the
> default in FreeDOS is to run slow so games will run correctly. I think the
> command to run full speed is FDAPM SPEED 8/8. Half speed is 4/8, the slowest
> is 1/8 one eighth speed.
>
> Ira
>
> [hidden email]  805-212-0588
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Freedos-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: FreeDOS 1,2 runs very slow

dmccunney
In reply to this post by Ira Minor
On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Ira Minor <[hidden email]> wrote:
> My guess is that the default in FreeDOS is to run slow so games will run correctly.

I don't believe so.  DOS is a single user, single tasking OS.  When
you ran a game, DOS was involved in loading it, but the game then took
over and directly accessed the hardware. DOS itself was out of the
loop. They do under FreeDOS, too, if you boot into FreeDOS..

Open source efforts like DOSBox are virtual machines to provide the
DOS environment the games expect.  The issue that some DOS games have
is that the underlying hardware now is *too* fast, and games that made
implicit assumptions about processor speed misbehave badly and are
unplayable.  DOSBox has ways of dealing with that, by inserting wait
states to slow things down, and programs like TameDOS also exist for
similar purposes.

Something else is going on here.  FreeDOS does not default to running
slow for the benefit of games, and most folks on this list aren't
gamers.

As Louis Santillan said, post your CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files

> Ira
> [hidden email]  805-212-0588
______
Dennis

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Freedos-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: FreeDOS 1,2 runs very slow

Eric Auer-3
In reply to this post by Ira Minor

Hi Ira,

if FDAPM APMDOS slows down your FreeDOS (on which hardware?
or in which environment, if not on bare physical hardware?)
then you can try FDAPM ADV:REG instead, as APMDOS defaults
to ADV:MAX which might be "overdoing" the energy savings in
certain situations.

Note that the SPEED settings (for ACPI throttling to N/8 of
the normal speed) default to full speed, so unless you used
them to explicitly reduce speed, there will be no throttle.

As said, it would be interesting to know which hardware and
which drivers you are using, to gather information about the
situations in which APMDOS causes reduced performance.

Regards, Eric

PS: ADV options are used instead, not in addition to, APMDOS.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Freedos-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: FreeDOS 1,2 runs very slow

Ralf Quint
On 1/20/2017 1:24 PM, Eric Auer wrote:
> Hi Ira,
>
> if FDAPM APMDOS slows down your FreeDOS (on which hardware?
> or in which environment, if not on bare physical hardware?)
> then you can try FDAPM ADV:REG instead, as APMDOS defaults
> to ADV:MAX which might be "overdoing" the energy savings in
> certain situations.
The problem is just to load everything and the kitchen sink by default,
regardless if needed or not. FDAPM is not necessary to run FreeDOS, it's
an add-on gimmick to enable certain power saving/management features
including throttling the CPU. If you don't need that, don't use it.
Beside that the last APM spec (v1.2) is now 20 years old and for at
least 19 years superseded by ACPI and I am not sure if FDAPM does
support those newer specs, while it is quite possible that a newer
BIOS/motherboard does not properly support the old APM specs to begin
with...

Ralf

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Freedos-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: FreeDOS 1,2 runs very slow

Ira Minor
In reply to this post by Eric Auer-3
The version of FDAPM is dated 11 Sep 2009 and does not have an ADV option. I installed using the legacy CD.

Ira

[hidden email]  805-212-0588

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Eric Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Ira,

if FDAPM APMDOS slows down your FreeDOS (on which hardware?
or in which environment, if not on bare physical hardware?)
then you can try FDAPM ADV:REG instead, as APMDOS defaults
to ADV:MAX which might be "overdoing" the energy savings in
certain situations.

Note that the SPEED settings (for ACPI throttling to N/8 of
the normal speed) default to full speed, so unless you used
them to explicitly reduce speed, there will be no throttle.

As said, it would be interesting to know which hardware and
which drivers you are using, to gather information about the
situations in which APMDOS causes reduced performance.

Regards, Eric

PS: ADV options are used instead, not in addition to, APMDOS.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Freedos-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Freedos-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: FreeDOS 1,2 runs very slow

Eric Auer-3

> The version of FDAPM is dated 11 Sep 2009 and does not have an ADV option.

Yes it does. Even the 2005 version has it, but it is not
shown in the /? help screen. Only the longer explanations
included as separate text document mention ADV options ;-)

Eric




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Freedos-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

old and new freedos energy saving - was: FreeDOS 1, 2 runs very slow

Eric Auer-3
In reply to this post by Ralf Quint

Hi Ralf and Ira,

> The problem is just to load everything and the kitchen sink by default,
> regardless if needed or not. FDAPM is not necessary to run FreeDOS

The kernel has a built-in IDLEHALT option which you can activate
in config sys and which already implements the core idea: To stop
the CPU (or give away a time slice in case of virtual computers)
at "obviously idle" moments. FDAPM itself has a few additional
features such as displaying statistics about how idle DOS was or
capturing more idle moments than a DOS kernel itself is aware of.

> Beside that the last APM spec (v1.2) is now 20 years old and for at
> least 19 years superseded by ACPI and I am not sure if FDAPM does...

FDAPM only supports very few ACPI functions, notably powering off
your computer for systems where the BIOS no longer supports APM
and the old ACPI throttle where the mainboard freezes the clock
for N out of each 8 (sometimes 16) time slices of e.g. 1s / 32k.

Because ACPI, even in the oldest versions, is a complex description
and programming language with a virtual machine and everything, the
few things done with ACPI by FDAPM are based on "keyword spotting"
in the ACPI code. In particular on newer systems, this often fails.
However, implementing a full ACPI VM would make FDAPM really huge.

Another FreeDOS tool which does things with less ancient computers
is PCISLEEP, which checks which of your PCI (or AGP or PCIe) cards
and devices support the easiest energy saving modes and offers to
put them to sleep or wake them up. In case of graphics cards, this
includes trying to re-boot the graphics BIOS. Again, implementing
a full energy saving system would make the tools huge, because PCI
also has "state loss" energy saving modes where you have to backup
and restore all hardware settings after wake-up. Plus you want the
devices to sleep and wake in a good order, e.g. bridges vs. disks.

So in short, this is all interesting to look at (in particular, my
PCISLEEP works great as minimalist LSPCI alternative for DOS), but
if you want maximum battery life, use a big modern operating system
with advanced drivers for the various components of your hardware.

If you only want to avoid fast battery drain and lower fan noises,
or want to keep your virtual PC / QEMU / virtualbox / whatever from
hogging a complete CPU core, then the IDLEHALT option built into
FreeDOS kernel, together with BIOS settings, already helps quite a
bit and the other tools are for making the experience a bit nicer.

Regards, Eric

PS: If any of the tools does something stupid, by misunderstanding
a too modern system, remember the ACPI emergency override: Press
the power button for several seconds to force a power off (or on).
Can be useful when you manage to switch off cooling at full speed,
or when you get stuck in a sleep state without wake-up button/key.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Freedos-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: old and new freedos energy saving - was: FreeDOS 1, 2 runs very slow

Bret
> Because ACPI, even in the oldest versions, is a complex description
> and programming language with a virtual machine and everything, the
> few things done with ACPI by FDAPM are based on "keyword spotting"
> in the ACPI code. In particular on newer systems, this often fails.
> However, implementing a full ACPI VM would make FDAPM really huge.

I've messed with ACPI a little bit, and I would go much further than "complex".  The way I would describe ACPI is pseudocode encrypted in a special machine language construct (in fact, it's called AML -- ACPI Machine Language).  To build a full APCI implementation, you actually need to build something similar to an interpreter (kind of like an old BASIC interpreter) where the input language is a special form of machine language (not a human-readable language).  In addition, it would would need to run entirely in the background (a TSR or Device Driver).

Complex doesn't even begin to describe ACPI.
____________________________________________________________
7 Times Lotto Winner Reveals What You're Missing when Buying
MNT
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5882b272b33043272029cst52vuc

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Freedos-user mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Loading...