boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

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boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Dennis Fenton
After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external
SCSI CD drive.
To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
1.44 floppy.
This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an
organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it
wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
Do you have a fix for this?

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

dmccunney
On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external
> SCSI CD drive.
> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
> 1.44 floppy.

The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy.  It expects to be
installed on a CDROM.

If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from
floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to
boot from.  That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD
you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy.  See
the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 »"

See http://www.freedos.org/download/

> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an
> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it
> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
> Do you have a fix for this?

The problem is pilot error.  Please read the applicable instructions
on the download page.
______
Dennis

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]>

Read what I wrote. I burned the iso to a CD. I also downloaded the floppy img.
It doesn't fit!
So my first interaction on this forum is from someone who treats me like a
dummy. Perhaps another reason to say to Hell with FreeDOS.

SentafromamyaBlackBerrya10asmartphoneaonatheaBellanetwork.
a Original Message a
From: dmccunney
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 9:26 PM
To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external
> SCSI CD drive.
> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
> 1.44 floppy.

The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy. It expects to be
installed on a CDROM.

If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from
floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to
boot from. That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD
you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy. See
the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 +"

See http://www.freedos.org/download/

> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an
> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it
> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
> Do you have a fix for this?

The problem is pilot error. Please read the applicable instructions
on the download page.
______
Dennis

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Dennis Fenton
In reply to this post by dmccunney
Read what I wrote. I burned the iso to a CD. I also downloaded the floppy img. It doesn't fit!
So my first interaction on this forum is from someone who treats me like a dummy. Perhaps another reason to say to Hell with FreeDOS.

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.
  Original Message  
From: dmccunney
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 9:26 PM
To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external
> SCSI CD drive.
> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
> 1.44 floppy.

The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy. It expects to be
installed on a CDROM.

If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from
floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to
boot from. That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD
you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy. See
the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 »"

See http://www.freedos.org/download/

> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an
> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it
> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
> Do you have a fix for this?

The problem is pilot error. Please read the applicable instructions
on the download page.
______
Dennis

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: dmccunney <[hidden email]>


On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external
> SCSI CD drive.
> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
> 1.44 floppy.

The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy.  It expects to be
installed on a CDROM.

If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from
floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to
boot from.  That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD
you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy.  See
the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 -+"

See http://www.freedos.org/download/

> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an
> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it
> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
> Do you have a fix for this?

The problem is pilot error.  Please read the applicable instructions
on the download page.
______
Dennis

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Felix Miata-3
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
Dennis Fenton composed on 2017-03-23 20:32 (UTC-0500):

> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external
> SCSI CD drive.
> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
> 1.44 floppy.

How much "too big"? Is it because your floppy has bad sectors. Floppies without
bad sectors are rather uncommon around here. For this reason I try to avoid
image writes, which demand all sectors in the media's spec be usable, and a
format that worked once may well be that last the media will accept without error.

> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an
> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it
> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
> Do you have a fix for this?--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]>

No bad sectors. I tried two different freshly formatted disks and ran scandisk
on them just to be sure.

SentafromamyaBlackBerrya10asmartphoneaonatheaBellanetwork.
a Original Message a
From: Felix Miata
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 10:30 PM
To: [hidden email]
Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Dennis Fenton composed on 2017-03-23 20:32 (UTC-0500):

> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external
> SCSI CD drive.
> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
> 1.44 floppy.

How much "too big"? Is it because your floppy has bad sectors. Floppies without

bad sectors are rather uncommon around here. For this reason I try to avoid
image writes, which demand all sectors in the media's spec be usable, and a
format that worked once may well be that last the media will accept without
error.

> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an
> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it
> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
> Do you have a fix for this?--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Dennis Fenton
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3
No bad sectors. I tried two different freshly formatted disks and ran scandisk on them just to be sure.

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.
  Original Message  
From: Felix Miata
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 10:30 PM
To: [hidden email]
Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Dennis Fenton composed on 2017-03-23 20:32 (UTC-0500):

> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external
> SCSI CD drive.
> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
> 1.44 floppy.

How much "too big"? Is it because your floppy has bad sectors. Floppies without
bad sectors are rather uncommon around here. For this reason I try to avoid
image writes, which demand all sectors in the media's spec be usable, and a
format that worked once may well be that last the media will accept without error.

> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an
> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it
> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
> Do you have a fix for this?--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Felix Miata-3
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip 
"boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847
512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image
would not fit here either.
-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

   Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

perditionc
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
On Mar 23, 2017 9:32 PM, "Dennis Fenton" <[hidden email]> wrote:
After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
...
To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
1.44 floppy.
...

What program are you using to write the image to your floppy?   Boot images cannot be copied using copy, they must be written with a program like rawwrite or dd.  Does it give an explicit error code or just a message about insufficient space?

Thank you,
Jeremy

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Gregg Eshelman
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3
It is possible to format a floppy a bit over size. Most drives will accommodate 2 to 4 extra tracks. Depending on the drive and the controller it's possible to alter the number of sectors per track, but all tracks must have the same number of sectors. Typically, altering the number of sectors renders the format non-bootable.

Schenk & Horn CopyStar is one such program. It's old, originally from 1994, but it's known to work on Windows 2000, Server 2003 and older. I've not tried it on XP and later. Probably not compatible with 64 bit Windows. http://www.programfiles.com/Default.asp?LinkId=13681

Microsoft used an over-capacity format they called DMF. For programs (like Windows 95) where the first disk had to be bootable it was standard 1.44M.

IBM used a different over-capacity format for OS/2's install disks, but nothing included with OS/2 could write data to the disks, despite the inclusion of a utility to create blank disks with that format. (The largest all floppy install I ever did was OS/2 Warp 3.0, followed by a couple of large updates.)

If only the entire OEM computer industry had wholeheartedly adopted the 2.88M floppy, instead of only IBM and Compaq sorta halfway supporting it. "Hey look! We're making 2.88M floppy drives standard on ALL our computers! How about YOU, Hewlett Packard, Packard Bell, Gateway 2000... *Apple*? You wanna fall behind us? Keep using that obsolete 1.44M!"


From: Felix Miata <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip
"boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847
512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image
would not fit here either.
-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/



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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Felix Miata <[hidden email]>

I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip
"boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847

512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded
image
would not fit here either.
-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

   Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: [hidden email]

--===============0290242691326517701==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f403045f8f76276a5b054b723b98

--f403045f8f76276a5b054b723b98
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Mar 23, 2017 9:32 PM, "Dennis Fenton" <[hidden email]> wrote:

After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
....
To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
1.44 floppy.
....


What program are you using to write the image to your floppy?   Boot images
cannot be copied using copy, they must be written with a program like
rawwrite or dd.  Does it give an explicit error code or just a message
about insufficient space?

Thank you,
Jeremy

--f403045f8f76276a5b054b723b98
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote">On
Mar 23, 2017 9:32 PM, &quot;Dennis Fenton&quot; &lt;<a
href="mailto:[hidden email]">[hidden email]</a>&gt; wrote:<br
type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0
..8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">After some research I decided
FreeDOS would be a good replacement for<br>...<br>
To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a<br>
1.44 floppy.<br>...<br></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div
dir="auto">What program are you using to write the image to your floppy? -a
Boot images cannot be copied using copy, they must be written with a program
like rawwrite or dd.-a Does it give an explicit error code or just a message
about insufficient space?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Thank
you,</div><div dir="auto">Jeremy</div><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><div
class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0
..8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"></blockquote></div></div></div>

--f403045f8f76276a5b054b723b98--


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MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Disposition: inline

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Rugxulo
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3
Hi,

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:56 PM, Felix Miata <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip
> "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847
> 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image
> would not fit here either.

I downloaded the above (FD12FLOPPY.zip) and two of my own images
(BARE_DOS and MetaDOS). All of them have the same size (1474560). A
simple "file *.img" tells me that they all have 2880 sectors. I've
written a few real floppies in recent years with some of these and had
no obvious problems.

The obvious tool to use, among a million others variations, would be DISKCOPY:

http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/diskcopy.htm

(Here's some alternatives.)

https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/35297505/

> -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

So, just for completeness, (direct or indirect) links to a bunch of
(Free)DOS floppy images are found below here:

https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/35557316/

Keep in mind that a 1.44 MB floppy doesn't hold many files (e.g. a
full FD "BASE" won't fit) and isn't actively used by most users
anymore (even in FreeDOS circles). Heck, floppies aren't even made
anymore, and most modern x86 machines lack the drives (although you
can probably still buy a USB floppy drive like I did). Thus it's
somewhat ignored in favor of newer, more popular media. So there is no
"full" install via floppy, thus you must figure things out manually
(for the most part). Networking (using a working packet driver) helps
tremendously. Otherwise you're stuck with copying manually
(sneakernet).

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Rugxulo <[hidden email]>

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:56 PM, Felix Miata <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip
> "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes,
2847
> 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded
image
> would not fit here either.

I downloaded the above (FD12FLOPPY.zip) and two of my own images
(BARE_DOS and MetaDOS). All of them have the same size (1474560). A
simple "file *.img" tells me that they all have 2880 sectors. I've
written a few real floppies in recent years with some of these and had
no obvious problems.

The obvious tool to use, among a million others variations, would be DISKCOPY:

http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/diskcopy.htm

(Here's some alternatives.)

https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/35297505/

> -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

So, just for completeness, (direct or indirect) links to a bunch of
(Free)DOS floppy images are found below here:

https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/35557316/

Keep in mind that a 1.44 MB floppy doesn't hold many files (e.g. a
full FD "BASE" won't fit) and isn't actively used by most users
anymore (even in FreeDOS circles). Heck, floppies aren't even made
anymore, and most modern x86 machines lack the drives (although you
can probably still buy a USB floppy drive like I did). Thus it's
somewhat ignored in favor of newer, more popular media. So there is no
"full" install via floppy, thus you must figure things out manually
(for the most part). Networking (using a working packet driver) helps
tremendously. Otherwise you're stuck with copying manually
(sneakernet).

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Gregg Eshelman <[hidden email]>

--===============5062282711183416658==
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It is possible to format a floppy a bit over size. Most drives will accommodate
2 to 4 extra tracks. Depending on the drive and the controller it's possible to
alter the number of sectors per track, but all tracks must have the same number
of sectors. Typically, altering the number of sectors renders the format
non-bootable.

Schenk & Horn CopyStar is one such program. It's old, originally from 1994, but
it's known to work on Windows 2000, Server 2003 and older. I've not tried it on
XP and later. Probably not compatible with 64 bit Windows.
http://www.programfiles.com/Default.asp?LinkId=13681

Microsoft used an over-capacity format they called DMF. For programs (like
Windows 95) where the first disk had to be bootable it was standard 1.44M.
IBM used a different over-capacity format for OS/2's install disks, but nothing
included with OS/2 could write data to the disks, despite the inclusion of a
utility to create blank disks with that format. (The largest all floppy install
I ever did was OS/2 Warp 3.0, followed by a couple of large updates.)

If only the entire OEM computer industry had wholeheartedly adopted the 2.88M
floppy, instead of only IBM and Compaq sorta halfway supporting it. "Hey look!
We're making 2.88M floppy drives standard on ALL our computers! How about YOU,
Hewlett Packard, Packard Bell, Gateway 2000... *Apple*? You wanna fall behind
us? Keep using that obsolete 1.44M!"

      From: Felix Miata <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 9:57 PM
 Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip
"boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847

512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded
image
would not fit here either.
-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

-a Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata-a ***-a http://fm.no-ip.com/


------=_Part_1937484_1016577170.1490330874749
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169187">It
is possible to format a floppy a bit over size. Most drives will accommodate 2
to 4 extra tracks. Depending on the drive and the controller it's possible to
alter the number of sectors per track, but all tracks must have the same number
of sectors. Typically, altering the number of sectors renders the format
non-bootable.<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169189"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169191" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169197">Schenk &amp; Horn CopyStar is one such program. It's old, originally from 1994, but it's known to work on Windows 2000, Server 2003 and older. I've not tried it on XP and later. Probably not compatible with 64 bit Windows. <a href="http://www.programfiles.com/Default.asp?LinkId=13681" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169281" class="">http://www.programfiles.com/Default.asp?LinkId=13681</a><br></span></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_167804"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169534"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169391" dir="ltr">Microsoft used an over-capacity format they called DMF. For programs (like Windows 95) where the first disk had to be bootable it was standard 1.44M.</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_
169429"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169512">IBM used a different over-capacity format for OS/2's install disks, but nothing included with OS/2 could write data to the disks, despite the inclusion of a utility to create blank disks with that format. (The largest all floppy install I ever did was OS/2 Warp 3.0, followed by a couple of large updates.)<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169392"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169514">If only the entire OEM computer industry had wholeheartedly adopted the 2.88M floppy, instead of only IBM and Compaq sorta halfway supporting it. "Hey look! We're making 2.88M floppy drives standard on ALL our computers! How about YOU, Hewlett Packard, Packard Bell, Gateway 2000... *Apple*? You wanna fall behind us? Keep using that obsolete 1.44M!"<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169516"><br></div></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_
167808" style="display: block;">  <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_167807"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_167806"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_167805"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_167812" size="2" face="Arial"> <hr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169389" size="1"> <b id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_167811"><span style="font-weight:bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_167810">From:</span></b> Felix Miata &lt;[hidden email]&gt;<br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169519"><span style="font-weight: bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169518">To:</span></b> [hidden email] <br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_167815"><span style="font-weight: bold;"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_167814">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 23, 2017 9:57 PM<br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_167818"><span style="font-weight: bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_167817">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_167820"><br><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_167822">I just looked inside <a shape="rect" href="http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip" target="_blank" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169218">http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip </a><br clear="none">"boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847 <br clear="none">512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image <br clear="none">would not fit here either.<br clear="none">-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant<br c
lear="none">words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)<br clear="none"><br clear="none">&nbsp;  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Felix Miata&nbsp; ***&nbsp; <a shape="rect" href="http://fm.no-ip.com/" target="_blank" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169678">http://fm.no-ip.com/</a></div><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></div></body></html>
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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Jerome Shidel
In reply to this post by Rugxulo
A 1.44MB 3.5” DS HD floppy disk is 1,474,560 bytes when formatted. (2MB unformatted)

It used 512 byte sectors, 18 sectors per track, 80 tracks per side and is/was a two sided media.

512 * 18 * 80 * 2 = 1474560 / 1024 = 1.44MB floppy.

More information on this can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_floppy_disk_formats

Also, on Mac, Unix and Linux dd will write the disk image fine with a command like:

sudo dd if=FD12FLOPPY.img of=/dev/fd0

(or similar)

As a side note, PC-DOS 7 used oddly formatted diskettes for its install media. These provided a capacity lager than 1.44MB on its 3.5” install media. This was good to reduce the number of diskettes required. But, it made it more difficult to clone the original floppy disks for backup purposes. Also, it was not 100% compatible with all floppy drives and could cause other headaches as well.

Jerome
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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Jerome Shidel
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3

> On Mar 23, 2017, at 11:56 PM, Felix Miata <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip 
> "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847
> 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image
> would not fit here either.

I see where the confusion may be coming from.

After formatting a floppy image using FreeDOS, it states:

1,474,560 bytes total disk space (disk size)
1,456,664 bytes available on disk (free clusters)

It would appear that the number 1457664 is the usable empty free space on the disk once it has been low level formatted and then formatted with the standard DOS file system. So, you probably do have a correct sized floppy diskette. However, you will need to use the appropriate tool to place the floppy image file onto the diskette. Other messages in this thread mention programs like rawrite & dd. These all work very well for this task.

Jerome
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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]>

Exactly

SentafromamyaBlackBerrya10asmartphoneaonatheaBellanetwork.
a Original Message a
From: Felix Miata
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 10:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip
"boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847

512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded
image
would not fit here either.
-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Dennis Fenton
In reply to this post by Felix Miata-3
Exactly

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.
  Original Message  
From: Felix Miata
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 10:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip 
"boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847
512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image
would not fit here either.
-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

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