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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
From: Jerome Shidel <[hidden email]>




> On Mar 24, 2017, at 6:15 PM, Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currentlyrCA has MS-DOS 6.22 as its
only OS. My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my installed
programs. The SCSI drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice FreeDOS has its own
equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE.
>

Ok, this is my advice.

First backup:
Create a MS-DOS boot floppy as a backup. That way if things go sideways you
have a working boot disk with your needed drivers.

Next Test:
Without messing around with the FreeDOS install floppy, just boot it. It should
work fine up to the "Gathering information" message. Then it would give you an
error stating it cannot find the packages. You can then quit to The command
prompt and look around. If you see drive C:, then let's try the "not booted
upgrade" (NBU) install method or two drive (DOSBox) method.

Install:
The two drive method has you copy the contents of the CD to a separate drive.
Then boot/run the FreeDOS setup program.

The NBU method may be easiest for you. Basically, you just boot the system like
normal. Then insert the floppy and CD. Go to drive A: and run "Setup". Make
sure you let it backup your current OS! You may want to clean as much as
possible out of your existing config.sys and autoexec.bat before using the
upgrade method. That way there are fewer chances of a conflict occurring.

Note:
The NBU method is not an "official" way of installing an OS. It may fail
horribly. That being said, I did what I could to get it to function properly.
And, it worked fine in the limited testing I did with NBU installs.

Jerome

> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.
>   Original Message
> From: Eric Auer
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 4:33 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
> Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
>
>
> Hi Dennis,
>
>> I downloaded and installed WinImage 9.0 on my win98 computer. It has a
>> floppy drive. I successfully wrote the img file to a floppy.
>> Another issue occurred to me. My cd-rom drive is a SCSI external type.
>
> That might be a problem, depending on your SCSI controller
> and whether it has good BIOS support etc etc. I assume you
> refer to the CD-ROM of the PC where you want to install DOS?
>
> By the way, does that PC also have another operating system?
> Do you want to replace that by DOS? Or install both side by
> side as "dual boot"? The latter requires special steps, the
> former can mean that current disk contents get overwritten.
>
>> The new boot floppy has an fdconfig.sys and an autoexecrCA.bat file. I'm
thinking

>> I need to add lines to both to recognize the SCSI drive when it boots.
>
> If you have good DOS drivers for the drive and know how to
> configure them, then you can do that. If you plan to install
> DOS on a computer where you already have or can install some
> operating system with easy internet, then I would recommend
> another method: Copy the ISO file of FreeDOS to a FAT drive
> on the PC where you want to install DOS and then "mount" it
> as if it would be the CD of FreeDOS :-) If the boot floppy
> has no automatic support for that, then I am sure that some
> extra explanation of this trick could be given by Rugxulo or
> Jerome, with examples of what to put where in fdconfig and
> autoexec on the boot floppy :-)
>
> The idea is that you need no hardware specific drivers at all
> to open the ISO if you already have it on the future DOS PC,
> so you avoid all worries about SCSI and CDROM drivers then.
>
> You still do need that special ISO driver, of course, but as
> that is not specific to certain hardware, it is easy to use.
>
> Cheers, Eric
>
>
>
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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Jerome Shidel <[hidden email]>




> On Mar 24, 2017, at 6:40 PM, Eric Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Dennis,
>
>> The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currentlyrCA has MS-DOS 6.22 as
>> its only OS. My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my
>> installed programs. The SCSI drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice
>> FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE.
>
> Well in that case, you can simply use the existing DOS SCSI
> and CDROM drivers :-) You can even keep MSCDEX until you get
> used to SHSUCDX later... And you can use your existing lines
> from autoexec and config for the autoexec and (fd-) config
> of FreeDOS. Only if you were using the MS DOS config sys
> MENU system, you will have to change some things - syntax
> for menus works in a different way in FreeDOS.

I'd advise just plugging in his needed lines into the new configuration files.
But, what ever is easiest.

>
> Maybe Jerome and Rugxulo can give some hints about how to
> tell the installer to only install FreeDOS to the existing
> C: drive of your MS DOS PC without damaging other programs

If his old MS-DOS install is not under the FDOS\ directory (unless changed in
advanced mode), it will just ignore it. That goes for other directories as
well. If the existing target directory (Like FDOS\) for the OS already exists,
it will be backed up and the cleaned out.

> Even then, it is always very good to have a backup of all
> files before updating. So if anything goes wrong, you can
> use the backups to repair the damage :-)

Yes, always backup!

Jerome

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Eric Auer-3
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton

A backup on the same disk but different partitions
does not really help you if things go really wrong,
but as you say, data loss would be no real problem
for you... You should probably backup at least the
DOS SCSI drivers though ;-) Jerome also mentioned
the drivers as being the most backup worthy files.

As Jerome wrote, you can simply install to C:\FDOS
and leave most of the rest of C: and D: unharmed.
Outside the FDOS directory, only the config files
(autoexec / config / fdconfig / similar) and boot
files (kernel, maybe command) in the root directory
of C:\ and the boot sector should get overwritten,
not much else to worry about UNLESS you format or
fdisk... In which case everything would be gone.

As you already have some DOS (here: MS DOS) on the
PC, I agree with Jerome that "not booted update" is
worth a trying for a "smoother" change to FreeDOS.

I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or
"no advantage to MS DOS". Examples of advantages:

Several drivers are smaller in RAM compared to MS
DOS versions, FreeDOS supports FAT32 and LBA :-)

In particular, this means that you can (if your
BIOS is not too old) harddisks up to 2 TB size
and partitions of many GB size without problems.

Regards, Eric

> My internal hard drive is partitioned into C and D drives. The entire
> contents of the C:\DOS directory is backed up on drive D. I also have
> an MS-DOS boot disk that includes my current autoexec.bat and
> config.sys files.


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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]>

Thanks Eric.

SentafromamyaBlackBerrya10asmartphoneaonatheaBellanetwork.
a Original Message a
From: Eric Auer
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 7:21 PM
To: [hidden email]
Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk


A backup on the same disk but different partitions
does not really help you if things go really wrong,
but as you say, data loss would be no real problem
for you... You should probably backup at least the
DOS SCSI drivers though ;-) Jerome also mentioned
the drivers as being the most backup worthy files.

As Jerome wrote, you can simply install to C:\FDOS
and leave most of the rest of C: and D: unharmed.
Outside the FDOS directory, only the config files
(autoexec / config / fdconfig / similar) and boot
files (kernel, maybe command) in the root directory
of C:\ and the boot sector should get overwritten,
not much else to worry about UNLESS you format or
fdisk... In which case everything would be gone.

As you already have some DOS (here: MS DOS) on the
PC, I agree with Jerome that "not booted update" is
worth a trying for a "smoother" change to FreeDOS.

I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or
"no advantage to MS DOS". Examples of advantages:

Several drivers are smaller in RAM compared to MS
DOS versions, FreeDOS supports FAT32 and LBA :-)

In particular, this means that you can (if your
BIOS is not too old) harddisks up to 2 TB size
and partitions of many GB size without problems.

Regards, Eric

> My internal hard drive is partitioned into C and D drives. The entire
> contents of the C:\DOS directory is backed up on drive D. I also have
> an MS-DOS boot disk that includes my current autoexec.bat and
> config.sys files.


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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Dennis Fenton
In reply to this post by Eric Auer-3
Thanks Eric.

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.
  Original Message  
From: Eric Auer
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 7:21 PM
To: [hidden email]
Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk


A backup on the same disk but different partitions
does not really help you if things go really wrong,
but as you say, data loss would be no real problem
for you... You should probably backup at least the
DOS SCSI drivers though ;-) Jerome also mentioned
the drivers as being the most backup worthy files.

As Jerome wrote, you can simply install to C:\FDOS
and leave most of the rest of C: and D: unharmed.
Outside the FDOS directory, only the config files
(autoexec / config / fdconfig / similar) and boot
files (kernel, maybe command) in the root directory
of C:\ and the boot sector should get overwritten,
not much else to worry about UNLESS you format or
fdisk... In which case everything would be gone.

As you already have some DOS (here: MS DOS) on the
PC, I agree with Jerome that "not booted update" is
worth a trying for a "smoother" change to FreeDOS.

I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or
"no advantage to MS DOS". Examples of advantages:

Several drivers are smaller in RAM compared to MS
DOS versions, FreeDOS supports FAT32 and LBA :-)

In particular, this means that you can (if your
BIOS is not too old) harddisks up to 2 TB size
and partitions of many GB size without problems.

Regards, Eric

> My internal hard drive is partitioned into C and D drives. The entire
> contents of the C:\DOS directory is backed up on drive D. I also have
> an MS-DOS boot disk that includes my current autoexec.bat and
> config.sys files.


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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Ira Minor
If you already have Windows 98 SE, you have DOS 7.1. I prefer it to FreeDOS because of better documentation.

Ira

[hidden email]  805-212-0588

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks Eric.

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.
  Original Message  
From: Eric Auer
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 7:21 PM
To: [hidden email]
Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk


A backup on the same disk but different partitions
does not really help you if things go really wrong,
but as you say, data loss would be no real problem
for you... You should probably backup at least the
DOS SCSI drivers though ;-) Jerome also mentioned
the drivers as being the most backup worthy files.

As Jerome wrote, you can simply install to C:\FDOS
and leave most of the rest of C: and D: unharmed.
Outside the FDOS directory, only the config files
(autoexec / config / fdconfig / similar) and boot
files (kernel, maybe command) in the root directory
of C:\ and the boot sector should get overwritten,
not much else to worry about UNLESS you format or
fdisk... In which case everything would be gone.

As you already have some DOS (here: MS DOS) on the
PC, I agree with Jerome that "not booted update" is
worth a trying for a "smoother" change to FreeDOS.

I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or
"no advantage to MS DOS". Examples of advantages:

Several drivers are smaller in RAM compared to MS
DOS versions, FreeDOS supports FAT32 and LBA :-)

In particular, this means that you can (if your
BIOS is not too old) harddisks up to 2 TB size
and partitions of many GB size without problems.

Regards, Eric

> My internal hard drive is partitioned into C and D drives. The entire
> contents of the C:\DOS directory is backed up on drive D. I also have
> an MS-DOS boot disk that includes my current autoexec.bat and
> config.sys files.


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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Eric Auer <[hidden email]>



Hi Dennis,

> The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currentlyrCA has MS-DOS 6.22 as
> its only OS. My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my
> installed programs. The SCSI drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice
> FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE.

Well in that case, you can simply use the existing DOS SCSI
and CDROM drivers :-) You can even keep MSCDEX until you get
used to SHSUCDX later... And you can use your existing lines
from autoexec and config for the autoexec and (fd-) config
of FreeDOS. Only if you were using the MS DOS config sys
MENU system, you will have to change some things - syntax
for menus works in a different way in FreeDOS.

Maybe Jerome and Rugxulo can give some hints about how to
tell the installer to only install FreeDOS to the existing
C: drive of your MS DOS PC without damaging other programs.

Even then, it is always very good to have a backup of all
files before updating. So if anything goes wrong, you can
use the backups to repair the damage :-)

Regards, Eric



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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Ira Minor <[hidden email]>

--===============2471480371050748780==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1148df5c151ae4054b865f99

--001a1148df5c151ae4054b865f99
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

If you already have Windows 98 SE, you have DOS 7.1. I prefer it to FreeDOS
because of better documentation.

Ira

[hidden email]  805-212-0588

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Eric.
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.
>   Original Message
> From: Eric Auer
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 7:21 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
> Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
>
>
> A backup on the same disk but different partitions
> does not really help you if things go really wrong,
> but as you say, data loss would be no real problem
> for you... You should probably backup at least the
> DOS SCSI drivers though ;-) Jerome also mentioned
> the drivers as being the most backup worthy files.
>
> As Jerome wrote, you can simply install to C:\FDOS
> and leave most of the rest of C: and D: unharmed.
> Outside the FDOS directory, only the config files
> (autoexec / config / fdconfig / similar) and boot
> files (kernel, maybe command) in the root directory
> of C:\ and the boot sector should get overwritten,
> not much else to worry about UNLESS you format or
> fdisk... In which case everything would be gone.
>
> As you already have some DOS (here: MS DOS) on the
> PC, I agree with Jerome that "not booted update" is
> worth a trying for a "smoother" change to FreeDOS.
>
> I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or
> "no advantage to MS DOS". Examples of advantages:
>
> Several drivers are smaller in RAM compared to MS
> DOS versions, FreeDOS supports FAT32 and LBA :-)
>
> In particular, this means that you can (if your
> BIOS is not too old) harddisks up to 2 TB size
> and partitions of many GB size without problems.
>
> Regards, Eric
>
> > My internal hard drive is partitioned into C and D drives. The entire
> > contents of the C:\DOS directory is backed up on drive D. I also have
> > an MS-DOS boot disk that includes my current autoexec.bat and
> > config.sys files.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

--001a1148df5c151ae4054b865f99
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#0000ff">If
you already have Windows 98 SE, you have DOS 7.1. I prefer it to FreeDOS
because of better documentation.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br
clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><font
size="4">Ira</font><div><font size="4"><br></font></div><div><font size="4"><a
href="mailto:[hidden email]" target="_blank">[hidden email]</a>
-a805-212-0588</font></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dennis Fenton
<span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:[hidden email]"
target="_blank">[hidden email]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">Thanks Eric.<br>
<span class=""><br>
Sent-afrom-amy-aBlackBerry-a10-a<wbr>smartphone-aon-athe-aBell-a<wbr>network.<br>
-a Original Message -a<br>
</span>From: Eric Auer<br>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 7:21 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:[hidden email]">freedos-user@lists.<wbr>sourceforge.net</a><br>
<span class="im HOEnZb">Reply To: Discussion and general questions about
FreeDOS.<br>
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">A backup on the same disk but
different partitions<br>
does not really help you if things go really wrong,<br>
but as you say, data loss would be no real problem<br>
for you... You should probably backup at least the<br>
DOS SCSI drivers though ;-) Jerome also mentioned<br>
the drivers as being the most backup worthy files.<br>
<br>
As Jerome wrote, you can simply install to C:\FDOS<br>
and leave most of the rest of C: and D: unharmed.<br>
Outside the FDOS directory, only the config files<br>
(autoexec / config / fdconfig / similar) and boot<br>
files (kernel, maybe command) in the root directory<br>
of C:\ and the boot sector should get overwritten,<br>
not much else to worry about UNLESS you format or<br>
fdisk... In which case everything would be gone.<br>
<br>
As you already have some DOS (here: MS DOS) on the<br>
PC, I agree with Jerome that &quot;not booted update&quot; is<br>
worth a trying for a &quot;smoother&quot; change to FreeDOS.<br>
<br>
I disagree about FreeDOS being &quot;not ready yet&quot; or<br>
&quot;no advantage to MS DOS&quot;. Examples of advantages:<br>
<br>
Several drivers are smaller in RAM compared to MS<br>
DOS versions, FreeDOS supports FAT32 and LBA :-)<br>
<br>
In particular, this means that you can (if your<br>
BIOS is not too old) harddisks up to 2 TB size<br>
and partitions of many GB size without problems.<br>
<br>
Regards, Eric<br>
<br>
&gt; My internal hard drive is partitioned into C and D drives. The entire<br>
&gt; contents of the C:\DOS directory is backed up on drive D. I also have<br>
&gt; an MS-DOS boot disk that includes my current autoexec.bat and<br>
&gt; config.sys files.<br>
<br>
<br>
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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Eric Auer <[hidden email]>


A backup on the same disk but different partitions
does not really help you if things go really wrong,
but as you say, data loss would be no real problem
for you... You should probably backup at least the
DOS SCSI drivers though ;-) Jerome also mentioned
the drivers as being the most backup worthy files.

As Jerome wrote, you can simply install to C:\FDOS
and leave most of the rest of C: and D: unharmed.
Outside the FDOS directory, only the config files
(autoexec / config / fdconfig / similar) and boot
files (kernel, maybe command) in the root directory
of C:\ and the boot sector should get overwritten,
not much else to worry about UNLESS you format or
fdisk... In which case everything would be gone.

As you already have some DOS (here: MS DOS) on the
PC, I agree with Jerome that "not booted update" is
worth a trying for a "smoother" change to FreeDOS.

I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or
"no advantage to MS DOS". Examples of advantages:

Several drivers are smaller in RAM compared to MS
DOS versions, FreeDOS supports FAT32 and LBA :-)

In particular, this means that you can (if your
BIOS is not too old) harddisks up to 2 TB size
and partitions of many GB size without problems.

Regards, Eric

> My internal hard drive is partitioned into C and D drives. The entire
> contents of the C:\DOS directory is backed up on drive D. I also have
> an MS-DOS boot disk that includes my current autoexec.bat and
> config.sys files.


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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Dale E Sterner
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
Has anyone noticed that on Ebay someone is selling
a new HP mini with FREEDOS as its OS.
Straight from the factory with FREEDOS no setting up.


DS



On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 20:32:15 -0500 Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]>
writes:

> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the
> external
> SCSI CD drive.
> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
> 1.44 floppy.
> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can
> an
> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get
> it
> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
> Do you have a fix for this?
>
>
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>


******************************************************>>>>
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
*******************************************************>>>>

____________________________________________________________
Police Urge Americans to Carry This With Them at All Times
The Observer
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/58d692d3b3aad12d31f69st02duc

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Dale E Sterner <[hidden email]>

Has anyone noticed that on Ebay someone is selling
a new HP mini with FREEDOS as its OS.
Straight from the factory with FREEDOS no setting up.


DS



On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 20:32:15 -0500 Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]>
writes:

> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the
> external
> SCSI CD drive.
> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
> 1.44 floppy.
> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can
> an
> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get
> it
> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
> Do you have a fix for this?
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>


******************************************************>>>>
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
*******************************************************>>>>

____________________________________________________________
Police Urge Americans to Carry This With Them at All Times
The Observer
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/58d692d3b3aad12d31f69st02duc

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Rugxulo
In reply to this post by Eric Auer-3
Hi,

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Eric Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or "no advantage to MS DOS".

If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. MS-DOS
(which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most
ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS clone at
all, period.

Various DOS clones exist, and they all have minor advantages, but
overall they work the same (no extra APIs offered, no utilizing newer
advanced cpu features). For common DOS software (and loadable
drivers), they all behave effectively the same (more or less) on any
decent DOS kernel.

Reasons not to use MS-DOS? It's unsupported and proprietary and harder to find.
Reasons not to use FreeDOS? You just want to run the exact same
software that already runs perfectly on your current MS-DOS install.

Heck, apparently there are still people using TAWK, which is
(apparently) proprietary and long dead. One guy was complaining that
GAWK (aka, GPL) still doesn't 100% equal TAWK features despite being
20 years newer. Sound familiar? Old habits die hard.

(In hindsight, it's best to not write proprietary, non-standard,
unportable software at all, if you have a choice. Although nothing
lasts forever, not even standards, it does certainly help to try to be
portable/cross-platform from the start.)

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Rugxulo <[hidden email]>

Hi,

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Eric Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or "no advantage to MS DOS".

If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. MS-DOS
(which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most
ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS clone at
all, period.

Various DOS clones exist, and they all have minor advantages, but
overall they work the same (no extra APIs offered, no utilizing newer
advanced cpu features). For common DOS software (and loadable
drivers), they all behave effectively the same (more or less) on any
decent DOS kernel.

Reasons not to use MS-DOS? It's unsupported and proprietary and harder to find.
Reasons not to use FreeDOS? You just want to run the exact same
software that already runs perfectly on your current MS-DOS install.

Heck, apparently there are still people using TAWK, which is
(apparently) proprietary and long dead. One guy was complaining that
GAWK (aka, GPL) still doesn't 100% equal TAWK features despite being
20 years newer. Sound familiar? Old habits die hard.

(In hindsight, it's best to not write proprietary, non-standard,
unportable software at all, if you have a choice. Although nothing
lasts forever, not even standards, it does certainly help to try to be
portable/cross-platform from the start.)

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Dennis Fenton
In reply to this post by Rugxulo
Thanks to everyone on the FreeDOS list who tried to help me. I learned
a few things. After careful consideration I decided to go in a
different direction. I installed MS-DOS 7.10. It is now running
smoothly on my 486 laptop. I had to set up the SCSI drives by writing
a few lines into autoexec.bat and one into config.sys.
Happy computing.

On 25/03/2017, Rugxulo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Eric Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or "no advantage to MS
>> DOS".
>
> If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. MS-DOS
> (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most
> ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS clone at
> all, period.
>
> Various DOS clones exist, and they all have minor advantages, but
> overall they work the same (no extra APIs offered, no utilizing newer
> advanced cpu features). For common DOS software (and loadable
> drivers), they all behave effectively the same (more or less) on any
> decent DOS kernel.
>
> Reasons not to use MS-DOS? It's unsupported and proprietary and harder to
> find.
> Reasons not to use FreeDOS? You just want to run the exact same
> software that already runs perfectly on your current MS-DOS install.
>
> Heck, apparently there are still people using TAWK, which is
> (apparently) proprietary and long dead. One guy was complaining that
> GAWK (aka, GPL) still doesn't 100% equal TAWK features despite being
> 20 years newer. Sound familiar? Old habits die hard.
>
> (In hindsight, it's best to not write proprietary, non-standard,
> unportable software at all, if you have a choice. Although nothing
> lasts forever, not even standards, it does certainly help to try to be
> portable/cross-platform from the start.)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]>

Thanks to everyone on the FreeDOS list who tried to help me. I learned
a few things. After careful consideration I decided to go in a
different direction. I installed MS-DOS 7.10. It is now running
smoothly on my 486 laptop. I had to set up the SCSI drives by writing
a few lines into autoexec.bat and one into config.sys.
Happy computing.

On 25/03/2017, Rugxulo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Eric Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or "no advantage to MS
>> DOS".
>
> If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. MS-DOS
> (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most
> ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS clone at
> all, period.
>
> Various DOS clones exist, and they all have minor advantages, but
> overall they work the same (no extra APIs offered, no utilizing newer
> advanced cpu features). For common DOS software (and loadable
> drivers), they all behave effectively the same (more or less) on any
> decent DOS kernel.
>
> Reasons not to use MS-DOS? It's unsupported and proprietary and harder to
> find.
> Reasons not to use FreeDOS? You just want to run the exact same
> software that already runs perfectly on your current MS-DOS install.
>
> Heck, apparently there are still people using TAWK, which is
> (apparently) proprietary and long dead. One guy was complaining that
> GAWK (aka, GPL) still doesn't 100% equal TAWK features despite being
> 20 years newer. Sound familiar? Old habits die hard.
>
> (In hindsight, it's best to not write proprietary, non-standard,
> unportable software at all, if you have a choice. Although nothing
> lasts forever, not even standards, it does certainly help to try to be
> portable/cross-platform from the start.)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Eric Auer-3
In reply to this post by Rugxulo

Hi Rugxulo,

> If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. MS-DOS
> (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most
> ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS
> clone at all all, period.

Being the most widely used does not equal being the best.

For example Linux is great for certain use cases and this
is not changed by "but millions already have Windows" as
an argument to use Windows instead for those use cases...

Similarily, FreeDOS gives you a lot of DOS, a lot newer
than the early 1990s Microsoft version, often in a much
smaller package both in terms of disk space and in terms
of the amount of RAM needed. And newer drivers :-)

On the other hand, all DOS clones have to be extremely
similar to MS DOS when it comes to supporting software
apps for DOS. Because if you first have to port your
XYZ app for Linux to "the cool new OS ABC" which also
behaves a bit like DOS, then most users would simply
use XYZ directly in Linux and not care about DOS. But
as FreeDOS and other clones basically run ALL the good
old software for DOS, clones are clearly attractive.

Note that if you want to use more than 1 core of your
CPU or more than 4 GB of RAM, then DOS is not for you.

A multi tasking 64 bit OS will make you more happy then
and nobody complains about a few GB of disk space there.

A reason to use FreeDOS in spite of already having MS DOS:

Your new hardware has bad support from MS DOS and you want
to have more RAM free and a few new drivers. Of course you
are free to achieve that by MIXING the best files from both
versions of DOS, as you already owned MS DOS in my example.

Cheers, Eric



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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Eric Auer <[hidden email]>


Hi Rugxulo,

> If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. MS-DOS
> (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most
> ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS
> clone at all all, period.

Being the most widely used does not equal being the best.

For example Linux is great for certain use cases and this
is not changed by "but millions already have Windows" as
an argument to use Windows instead for those use cases...

Similarily, FreeDOS gives you a lot of DOS, a lot newer
than the early 1990s Microsoft version, often in a much
smaller package both in terms of disk space and in terms
of the amount of RAM needed. And newer drivers :-)

On the other hand, all DOS clones have to be extremely
similar to MS DOS when it comes to supporting software
apps for DOS. Because if you first have to port your
XYZ app for Linux to "the cool new OS ABC" which also
behaves a bit like DOS, then most users would simply
use XYZ directly in Linux and not care about DOS. But
as FreeDOS and other clones basically run ALL the good
old software for DOS, clones are clearly attractive.

Note that if you want to use more than 1 core of your
CPU or more than 4 GB of RAM, then DOS is not for you.

A multi tasking 64 bit OS will make you more happy then
and nobody complains about a few GB of disk space there.

A reason to use FreeDOS in spite of already having MS DOS:

Your new hardware has bad support from MS DOS and you want
to have more RAM free and a few new drivers. Of course you
are free to achieve that by MIXING the best files from both
versions of DOS, as you already owned MS DOS in my example.

Cheers, Eric



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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Dale E Sterner
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
You might have trouble with sound drivers. MS dos 7.1 wanted me to use
windows
to install one so that I could enjoy Windows but no windows to use.
 FREEDOS doesn't care.


DS


On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 13:58:08 -0500 Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]>
writes:

> Thanks to everyone on the FreeDOS list who tried to help me. I
> learned
> a few things. After careful consideration I decided to go in a
> different direction. I installed MS-DOS 7.10. It is now running
> smoothly on my 486 laptop. I had to set up the SCSI drives by
> writing
> a few lines into autoexec.bat and one into config.sys.
> Happy computing.
>
> On 25/03/2017, Rugxulo <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Eric Auer <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or "no advantage
> to MS
> >> DOS".
> >
> > If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e.
> MS-DOS
> > (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most
> > ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS
> clone at
> > all, period.
> >
> > Various DOS clones exist, and they all have minor advantages, but
> > overall they work the same (no extra APIs offered, no utilizing
> newer
> > advanced cpu features). For common DOS software (and loadable
> > drivers), they all behave effectively the same (more or less) on
> any
> > decent DOS kernel.
> >
> > Reasons not to use MS-DOS? It's unsupported and proprietary and
> harder to
> > find.
> > Reasons not to use FreeDOS? You just want to run the exact same
> > software that already runs perfectly on your current MS-DOS
> install.
> >
> > Heck, apparently there are still people using TAWK, which is
> > (apparently) proprietary and long dead. One guy was complaining
> that
> > GAWK (aka, GPL) still doesn't 100% equal TAWK features despite
> being
> > 20 years newer. Sound familiar? Old habits die hard.
> >
> > (In hindsight, it's best to not write proprietary, non-standard,
> > unportable software at all, if you have a choice. Although nothing
> > lasts forever, not even standards, it does certainly help to try
> to be
> > portable/cross-platform from the start.)
> >
> >
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > _______________________________________________
> > Freedos-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
> >
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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>


******************************************************>>>>
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
*******************************************************>>>>

____________________________________________________________
Police Urge Americans to Carry This With Them at All Times
The Observer
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/58d91a79e59d71a797f86st03duc

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Dennis Fenton
Thanks but I don't think it will matter in this case. The old Epson ActionNote laptop doesn't have a sound card or even a slot for one. I can listen to recorded sound by plugging phones or speakers directly into the CD-ROM. 
Dennis

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  Original Message  
From: Dale E Sterner
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 8:59 AM
To: [hidden email]
Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

You might have trouble with sound drivers. MS dos 7.1 wanted me to use
windows
to install one so that I could enjoy Windows but no windows to use.
FREEDOS doesn't care.


DS


On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 13:58:08 -0500 Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]>
writes:

> Thanks to everyone on the FreeDOS list who tried to help me. I
> learned
> a few things. After careful consideration I decided to go in a
> different direction. I installed MS-DOS 7.10. It is now running
> smoothly on my 486 laptop. I had to set up the SCSI drives by
> writing
> a few lines into autoexec.bat and one into config.sys.
> Happy computing.
>
> On 25/03/2017, Rugxulo <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Eric Auer <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or "no advantage
> to MS
> >> DOS".
> >
> > If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e.
> MS-DOS
> > (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most
> > ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS
> clone at
> > all, period.
> >
> > Various DOS clones exist, and they all have minor advantages, but
> > overall they work the same (no extra APIs offered, no utilizing
> newer
> > advanced cpu features). For common DOS software (and loadable
> > drivers), they all behave effectively the same (more or less) on
> any
> > decent DOS kernel.
> >
> > Reasons not to use MS-DOS? It's unsupported and proprietary and
> harder to
> > find.
> > Reasons not to use FreeDOS? You just want to run the exact same
> > software that already runs perfectly on your current MS-DOS
> install.
> >
> > Heck, apparently there are still people using TAWK, which is
> > (apparently) proprietary and long dead. One guy was complaining
> that
> > GAWK (aka, GPL) still doesn't 100% equal TAWK features despite
> being
> > 20 years newer. Sound familiar? Old habits die hard.
> >
> > (In hindsight, it's best to not write proprietary, non-standard,
> > unportable software at all, if you have a choice. Although nothing
> > lasts forever, not even standards, it does certainly help to try
> to be
> > portable/cross-platform from the start.)
> >
> >
>
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> > _______________________________________________
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> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
> >
>
>
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******************************************************>>>>
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
*******************************************************>>>>

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Rugxulo
In reply to this post by Eric Auer-3
Hi, Eric,

This reply may be pointless, but I'm sure you understand where I'm
coming from. In no way am I pretending that MS-DOS is technically
superior or preferred. The weakest claim is only that it is "probably"
more compatible (which is unavoidable since it's the original). It is
dead and should normally be hard to find, but hey, the OP already had
a copy, so ....

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Eric Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. MS-DOS
>> (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most
>> ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS
>> clone at all all, period.
>
> Being the most widely used does not equal being the best.
> Similarily, FreeDOS gives you a lot of DOS, a lot newer
> than the early 1990s Microsoft version, often in a much
> smaller package both in terms of disk space and in terms
> of the amount of RAM needed. And newer drivers :-)
>
> On the other hand, all DOS clones have to be extremely
> similar to MS DOS when it comes to supporting software
> apps for DOS. Because if you first have to port your
> XYZ app for Linux to "the cool new OS ABC" which also
> behaves a bit like DOS, then most users would simply
> use XYZ directly in Linux and not care about DOS. But
> as FreeDOS and other clones basically run ALL the good
> old software for DOS, clones are clearly attractive.
>
> A reason to use FreeDOS in spite of already having MS DOS:
>
> Your new hardware has bad support from MS DOS and you want
> to have more RAM free and a few new drivers. Of course you
> are free to achieve that by MIXING the best files from both
> versions of DOS, as you already owned MS DOS in my example.

I'm not a salesman. The OP already had MS-DOS, so it's very hard to
sell somebody a clone of what they already have. I don't even use or
recommend MS-DOS (or DR-DOS) anymore, only FreeDOS. For sure, FreeDOS
is "free"-r, much easier to use, study, modify, and redistribute. Yes,
you can still barely find MS-DOS somewhere else (legally), but it's
harder than it used to be.

Userland is not a "unique" advantage because most DOS developers these
days share tools and drivers. The kernel itself just doesn't have all
the bang/whiz/pop/flash new-fangled cpu features that users blindly
expect when a "new" version of "DOS" is released in 2017. Again, I'm
not a salesman, nor a kernel dev, so as an end user I have a hard time
pretending that FreeDOS is a bajillion times more advanced in the
kernel than the other DOSes. AFAIK, it does the same boring ol' stuff
and nothing extra fancy, providing no extra APIs, utilizing no
advanced cpu features. I just can't brag too hard when the
improvements are minor. Most of the enhancements over MS-DOS (etc) are
banal: freedom, better tools, community, etc.

So, again, FreeDOS works great, but it's a hard sell to someone else,
especially if they already have the original.

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