boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
From: Rugxulo <[hidden email]>

Hi, Eric,

This reply may be pointless, but I'm sure you understand where I'm
coming from. In no way am I pretending that MS-DOS is technically
superior or preferred. The weakest claim is only that it is "probably"
more compatible (which is unavoidable since it's the original). It is
dead and should normally be hard to find, but hey, the OP already had
a copy, so ....

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Eric Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. MS-DOS
>> (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most
>> ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS
>> clone at all all, period.
>
> Being the most widely used does not equal being the best.
> Similarily, FreeDOS gives you a lot of DOS, a lot newer
> than the early 1990s Microsoft version, often in a much
> smaller package both in terms of disk space and in terms
> of the amount of RAM needed. And newer drivers :-)
>
> On the other hand, all DOS clones have to be extremely
> similar to MS DOS when it comes to supporting software
> apps for DOS. Because if you first have to port your
> XYZ app for Linux to "the cool new OS ABC" which also
> behaves a bit like DOS, then most users would simply
> use XYZ directly in Linux and not care about DOS. But
> as FreeDOS and other clones basically run ALL the good
> old software for DOS, clones are clearly attractive.
>
> A reason to use FreeDOS in spite of already having MS DOS:
>
> Your new hardware has bad support from MS DOS and you want
> to have more RAM free and a few new drivers. Of course you
> are free to achieve that by MIXING the best files from both
> versions of DOS, as you already owned MS DOS in my example.

I'm not a salesman. The OP already had MS-DOS, so it's very hard to
sell somebody a clone of what they already have. I don't even use or
recommend MS-DOS (or DR-DOS) anymore, only FreeDOS. For sure, FreeDOS
is "free"-r, much easier to use, study, modify, and redistribute. Yes,
you can still barely find MS-DOS somewhere else (legally), but it's
harder than it used to be.

Userland is not a "unique" advantage because most DOS developers these
days share tools and drivers. The kernel itself just doesn't have all
the bang/whiz/pop/flash new-fangled cpu features that users blindly
expect when a "new" version of "DOS" is released in 2017. Again, I'm
not a salesman, nor a kernel dev, so as an end user I have a hard time
pretending that FreeDOS is a bajillion times more advanced in the
kernel than the other DOSes. AFAIK, it does the same boring ol' stuff
and nothing extra fancy, providing no extra APIs, utilizing no
advanced cpu features. I just can't brag too hard when the
improvements are minor. Most of the enhancements over MS-DOS (etc) are
banal: freedom, better tools, community, etc.

So, again, FreeDOS works great, but it's a hard sell to someone else,
especially if they already have the original.

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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

userbeitrag
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
On 2017-03-24 03:46, Dennis Fenton wrote:
> Read what I wrote. I burned the iso to a CD. I also downloaded the floppy img. It doesn't fit!
> So my first interaction on this forum is from someone who treats me like a dummy. Perhaps another reason to say to Hell with FreeDOS.

This is not possible. The FLOPPY.img contained in
http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip is exactly
1474560 bytes big, which is the size of a 1.44 MB floppy disk.

If this image doesn't fit, no 1.44 MB image will fit on your floppy. In
other words: the image is the right size and something else must be wrong.

And there is no need to be rude. "Pilot error" is correct in this case,
and is meant to make you think - maybe it is you after all who is wrong.
To make it absolutely clear: I can confirm that this image WILL FIT on
any 1.44 MB floppy drive. I cannot confirm if it will actually boot (I
didn't test this... yet... or not that I recall at the moment) BUT it is
the right size. Thus it must be you who is wrong with the "doesn't fit"
statement.

Even so, I understand very much that installing FreeDOS is not trivial
since you need to account for so many different hardware cases. And it
is very often just a driver that is missing; the original - long lost -
driver from the driver disk supplied with the original hardware (IDE,
SCSI, CDROM, ...) for DOS, OS/2 and Windows 3.1/NT 3.x... those were the
days...

Back then you would get the *then new* hardware with the driver on
floppy. Trying to install FreeDOS now, about two decades later, makes it
hard to get all the driver stuff (who preserves such things?) and
configurations right (jumpers, C/H/S in the BIOS etc. - who preserves
manuals and quick installation guides?).


Good luck! I hope you will figure it out!
(As I hope to find the time to make my 486 run FreeDOS eventually... I
didn't find the time since after the New Years holidays...)


Userbeitrag.


The answer from Dennis is correct:

> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
>> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
>> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
>> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external
>> SCSI CD drive.
>> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
>> 1.44 floppy.
> The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy. It expects to be
> installed on a CDROM.
>
> If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from
> floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to
> boot from. That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD
> you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy. See
> the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 »"
>
> See http://www.freedos.org/download/
>
>> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an
>> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it
>> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
>> Do you have a fix for this?
> The problem is pilot error. Please read the applicable instructions
> on the download page.
> ______
> Dennis


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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]>

If you read back in this thread, the problem was dealt with at length and
solved.
Dennis

SentafromamyaBlackBerrya10asmartphoneaonatheaBellanetwork.
a Original Message a
From: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 3:38 AM
To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

On 2017-03-24 03:46, Dennis Fenton wrote:
> Read what I wrote. I burned the iso to a CD. I also downloaded the floppy
img. It doesn't fit!
> So my first interaction on this forum is from someone who treats me like a
dummy. Perhaps another reason to say to Hell with FreeDOS.

This is not possible. The FLOPPY.img contained in
http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip is exactly
1474560 bytes big, which is the size of a 1.44 MB floppy disk.

If this image doesn't fit, no 1.44 MB image will fit on your floppy. In
other words: the image is the right size and something else must be wrong.

And there is no need to be rude. "Pilot error" is correct in this case,
and is meant to make you think - maybe it is you after all who is wrong.
To make it absolutely clear: I can confirm that this image WILL FIT on
any 1.44 MB floppy drive. I cannot confirm if it will actually boot (I
didn't test this... yet... or not that I recall at the moment) BUT it is
the right size. Thus it must be you who is wrong with the "doesn't fit"
statement.

Even so, I understand very much that installing FreeDOS is not trivial
since you need to account for so many different hardware cases. And it
is very often just a driver that is missing; the original - long lost -
driver from the driver disk supplied with the original hardware (IDE,
SCSI, CDROM, ...) for DOS, OS/2 and Windows 3.1/NT 3.x... those were the
days...

Back then you would get the *then new* hardware with the driver on
floppy. Trying to install FreeDOS now, about two decades later, makes it
hard to get all the driver stuff (who preserves such things?) and
configurations right (jumpers, C/H/S in the BIOS etc. - who preserves
manuals and quick installation guides?).


Good luck! I hope you will figure it out!
(As I hope to find the time to make my 486 run FreeDOS eventually... I
didn't find the time since after the New Years holidays...)


Userbeitrag.


The answer from Dennis is correct:

> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
>> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
>> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
>> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external
>> SCSI CD drive.
>> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
>> 1.44 floppy.
> The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy. It expects to be
> installed on a CDROM.
>
> If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from
> floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to
> boot from. That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD
> you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy. See
> the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 +"
>
> See http://www.freedos.org/download/
>
>> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an
>> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it
>> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
>> Do you have a fix for this?
> The problem is pilot error. Please read the applicable instructions
> on the download page.
> ______
> Dennis


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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Dennis Fenton
In reply to this post by userbeitrag
If you read back in this thread, the problem was dealt with at length and solved.
Dennis

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.
  Original Message  
From: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 3:38 AM
To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

On 2017-03-24 03:46, Dennis Fenton wrote:
> Read what I wrote. I burned the iso to a CD. I also downloaded the floppy img. It doesn't fit!
> So my first interaction on this forum is from someone who treats me like a dummy. Perhaps another reason to say to Hell with FreeDOS.

This is not possible. The FLOPPY.img contained in
http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip is exactly
1474560 bytes big, which is the size of a 1.44 MB floppy disk.

If this image doesn't fit, no 1.44 MB image will fit on your floppy. In
other words: the image is the right size and something else must be wrong.

And there is no need to be rude. "Pilot error" is correct in this case,
and is meant to make you think - maybe it is you after all who is wrong.
To make it absolutely clear: I can confirm that this image WILL FIT on
any 1.44 MB floppy drive. I cannot confirm if it will actually boot (I
didn't test this... yet... or not that I recall at the moment) BUT it is
the right size. Thus it must be you who is wrong with the "doesn't fit"
statement.

Even so, I understand very much that installing FreeDOS is not trivial
since you need to account for so many different hardware cases. And it
is very often just a driver that is missing; the original - long lost -
driver from the driver disk supplied with the original hardware (IDE,
SCSI, CDROM, ...) for DOS, OS/2 and Windows 3.1/NT 3.x... those were the
days...

Back then you would get the *then new* hardware with the driver on
floppy. Trying to install FreeDOS now, about two decades later, makes it
hard to get all the driver stuff (who preserves such things?) and
configurations right (jumpers, C/H/S in the BIOS etc. - who preserves
manuals and quick installation guides?).


Good luck! I hope you will figure it out!
(As I hope to find the time to make my 486 run FreeDOS eventually... I
didn't find the time since after the New Years holidays...)


Userbeitrag.


The answer from Dennis is correct:

> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
>> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
>> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
>> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external
>> SCSI CD drive.
>> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
>> 1.44 floppy.
> The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy. It expects to be
> installed on a CDROM.
>
> If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from
> floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to
> boot from. That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD
> you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy. See
> the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 »"
>
> See http://www.freedos.org/download/
>
>> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an
>> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it
>> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
>> Do you have a fix for this?
> The problem is pilot error. Please read the applicable instructions
> on the download page.
> ______
> Dennis


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Re: boot floppy disk image too big for a disk

Karen Lewellen-2
In reply to this post by Dennis Fenton
From: [hidden email]


On 2017-03-24 03:46, Dennis Fenton wrote:
> Read what I wrote. I burned the iso to a CD. I also downloaded the floppy
img. It doesn't fit!
> So my first interaction on this forum is from someone who treats me like a
dummy. Perhaps another reason to say to Hell with FreeDOS.

This is not possible. The FLOPPY.img contained in
http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip is exactly
1474560 bytes big, which is the size of a 1.44 MB floppy disk.

If this image doesn't fit, no 1.44 MB image will fit on your floppy. In
other words: the image is the right size and something else must be wrong.

And there is no need to be rude. "Pilot error" is correct in this case,
and is meant to make you think - maybe it is you after all who is wrong.
To make it absolutely clear: I can confirm that this image WILL FIT on
any 1.44 MB floppy drive. I cannot confirm if it will actually boot (I
didn't test this... yet... or not that I recall at the moment) BUT it is
the right size. Thus it must be you who is wrong with the "doesn't fit"
statement.

Even so, I understand very much that installing FreeDOS is not trivial
since you need to account for so many different hardware cases. And it
is very often just a driver that is missing; the original - long lost -
driver from the driver disk supplied with the original hardware (IDE,
SCSI, CDROM, ...) for DOS, OS/2 and Windows 3.1/NT 3.x... those were the
days...

Back then you would get the *then new* hardware with the driver on
floppy. Trying to install FreeDOS now, about two decades later, makes it
hard to get all the driver stuff (who preserves such things?) and
configurations right (jumpers, C/H/S in the BIOS etc. - who preserves
manuals and quick installation guides?).


Good luck! I hope you will figure it out!
(As I hope to find the time to make my 486 run FreeDOS eventually... I
didn't find the time since after the New Years holidays...)


Userbeitrag.


The answer from Dennis is correct:

> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fenton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for
>> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with.
>> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot
>> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external
>> SCSI CD drive.
>> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a
>> 1.44 floppy.
> The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy. It expects to be
> installed on a CDROM.
>
> If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from
> floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to
> boot from. That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD
> you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy. See
> the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 -+"
>
> See http://www.freedos.org/download/
>
>> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an
>> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it
>> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image?
>> Do you have a fix for this?
> The problem is pilot error. Please read the applicable instructions
> on the download page.
> ______
> Dennis


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12345